Curse

wu is me · Feb 03, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Because I was challenged to do this (and because some think the mods can't possibly close or delete any posts because we don't know how a thread is going to turn out) ... without even reading this thread, let me sum up past, present and future arguments this thread will spawn.

PvE sucks, you are all noobs who don't know squat about the game.
PvP sucks, you are all elitist jerks who are know-it-alls.
Guru sucks, PvP people don't like to go here.
Guru sucks, PvE people don't like to go here.
Guru doesn't represent even 1% of the actual player base so this poll is bogus.
This is a PvE forum, so this poll is unfair.
An argument on a skill or build.
A discussion on Warhammer, WoW, or some far fetched game that is not an MMO like Super Mario Brothers.
HA HA. +1

And no, I'm not even going to read the thread. Points will be awarded to the person who can find the corresponding comments to fit my assumptions.

That is all. Carry on.

As a result of your divine intervention we now have a new kind of post:
[*] I found the Posts!! Wheres my points?

and now the thread has officially been derailed =D

Anyways, heres my theory... If you look look at the proportion of data stored in gw.dat for pve, vs for pvp, then take the ratio of players vs programming effort, you'll find programming gw for pvp is much more profitable ^^.
Therefore pvp is better, stop wasting valuable time on pve. (not that I don't pve =P)

RiceCream · Feb 03, 2009, 02:04 AM // 02:04

In this pvp based game one can do pve.

also i think the results on this forum will be significantly swayed to pve since it is a highly pve friendly forum.

DreamWind · Feb 03, 2009, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Yes it is, so, why don't you go and get informed. First go study what an RPG game really is first and foremost. You won't find a single line that says anything about PVP.

But you will on the Guild Wars box and ads...several times over. You may want to get informed on what a competitive game is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

The polls always show they hardly bought it first and foremost because of the PVP elements I don't care what the developer intended.

Who cares about the polls? We know there are more PvE players now, it doesn't need a poll. As long as you know what the devs intended though. I'm glad you admit you were wrong and we can put this behind us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Also the mass exodus of the populations speaks a lot about the whole game design and it's eventual failings.

Or perhaps it speaks of the game changing and people leaving PvP because they didn't like the changes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Theif

So... that all being said... Instead of continuing to type walls of text to prove I am right, why don't we just all settle on simple mathematics?

More people play PvE than PvP. PvE has more venues of play, and caters to a broader audience. PvP has its rightful place, and that isn't about to change.

You made a good post. Me personally I am beyond WHO has more players nowadays, to WHY does it have more players. This is important moving forward and to Guild Wars 2. I see the point that PvE caters to a wide audience. My problem is couldn't PvP cater to a wide audience in a game that was specifically designed as a competitive game? Why did PvP go from having a big place to having its "rightful" place as if it has to fight to survive? If PvP is going to have this same status in the future, I suspect things will never change. The next quote is another problem I have:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

I am a pve'r GW tells a story like most epic games and my character is the protagonist. He has saved the world four times and fought for favor of the gods and the honor of his guild. The reason I have not done a lot of pvp is it is not integrated enough into the storyline, its almost like a sideline activity. Anet has done a very poor job of integrating the two formats.

Agree completely. What the hell happened to the integration from Prophecies and Factions? Instead of expanding on the integration and making it better, they all but abandoned it. In doing so they lost a TON of players from PvP as everybody moved to PvE. I strongly suspect that Anet will not integrate the two in the future...despite all the world PvP rumors, I suspect PvP and PvE will be almost 100% seperated, thus putting PvP into the "sidegame" category once more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

Wow, this thread snowballed faster than I expected. I appogise for this, but sometimes I view you all as my own personal ant farm, and I like to shake it and see what you all do.

That is what you get when a PvP/PvE thread pops up...Inde's post sums it up well. It occurs to some extent in every game, but GW is pretty bad about it. Perhaps decisions with the game led to the phenomenon?

Master Knightfall · Feb 03, 2009, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

The player population moved from PvE to PvP quickly in the first few months of Guild Wars,

You got any documented proof of that? Nope? Didn't think so. Just another who makes up things just to promote their own agenda.

Quote:

I'm glad you admit you were wrong and we can put this behind us.

I didn't admit anything mo..n, I said I didn't care what the dev intended. One dev does not make a team of developers. When they ALL say it then I MIGHT note it, otherwise it's like Regina saying GW2 does exist and blah blah blah but no PROOF of any sort other than HER words. hahah Shadowbane is a game built foremost around PVP, GW is not. Also, open the flap cover on the prophecies box. It says "It's YOUR Adventure: "Jump right into a world of thousands where each MISSION is created just for you." Hrmmmm not one word about PVP there. In fact the symbols PVP is not mentioned anywhere on the box both inside or out. Of all the info about the game there is only one small insert about Hall of Heroes and that is all that comes anywhere close to PVP mentioned. So, show me where it says ON THE BOX as you stated that this game is built around PVP first and foremost? Glad to show you you are wrong as usual.

The real truth of what this game is built upon is on the inside cover of the first flap. SKILL which of course has been eliminated by grind which I am thankful for as well, because even a PVE game of skill gets old and boring if there is nothing new to challenge your skill level or require changing your skill set from time to time.

Oh and let's not leave out the pictures inside the flaps as well. Five pictures denoting PVE play and one picture of Hall of Heroes. hrmmm, looks like the advertising on the box sure denotes this as a game built around PVE first and foremost with a PVP element. Once again the PVE element is what sold this game up and to the 5 million point of sales certainly not PVP.

Fril Estelin · Feb 03, 2009, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You made a good post. Me personally I am beyond WHO has more players nowadays, to WHY does it have more players. This is important moving forward and to Guild Wars 2. I see the point that PvE caters to a wide audience. My problem is couldn't PvP cater to a wide audience in a game that was specifically designed as a competitive game? Why did PvP go from having a big place to having its "rightful" place as if it has to fight to survive? If PvP is going to have this same status in the future, I suspect things will never change. The next quote is another problem I have:

Agree completely. What the hell happened to the integration from Prophecies and Factions? Instead of expanding on the integration and making it better, they all but abandoned it. In doing so they lost a TON of players from PvP as everybody moved to PvE. I strongly suspect that Anet will not integrate the two in the future...despite all the world PvP rumors, I suspect PvP and PvE will be almost 100% seperated, thus putting PvP into the "sidegame" category once more.

I surely hope that GW2 will completely bury six feets under the PvE/PvP dichotomy of GW1. This viewpoint is an oversimplification of the real situation, it's easier to have a discussion if people are black or white, while the reality is that there are lots of shades of grey. And if GW2 simply continues the PvE/PvP separation (e.g. skills), the same problems are going to happen again. But I suspect it's not, and Anet learned their lesson.

It is NOT about PvE or PvP really, but rather a continuum of playability, where you could (it's only one vision of the situation, see post #70 for another very interesting viewpoint) go from "very casual" (easy relaxed PvE, a bit of light PvP) to "very hardcore" (elite PvE, high-end PvP), where one fits its free-time and gaming style into GW. Of course, very quickly we've seen clicks of people, the I-like-PvE-better and I-like-PvP-better, but PvE players also enjoy PvP (if light) and vice versa.

As I said above, when we start discussion GW1 as PvE and PvP content, disregarding player preferences, then we can see why AB was a great idea and, as you said, Anet stopped bridging the gap between the two kind of contents. PvE content is huge in GW1 (zones, monsters, equipment, quests/missions) while PvP content is quite reduced, but we've seen that size does not really matter, quality does. I've seen (I think in this thread) very original proposals to tie most PvP content to PvE content (do a quest for r1 glad, Zaishen elite into PvE stuff, etc.) and it may have been the right thing to do, if people were not narrowminded to classify stuff into PvE and PvP in their heads. You'd need the flexibility to "switch off" the PvE or PvP part, for those that hate one side of the gameplay, and additionally layer the content so that playability is mapped to these levels (of course you'll hear some casual players complaining that they don't have access to all game content, but they never will and it's no reason why Anet should dumb down the game, as we've seen with Ursan).

Tbh, changing the mind of players after 3years+ of GW1 is extremely close to impossible. People will not see this as a fresh, interesting viewpoint, but rather just "pointless argument" or simply words. It's sad but true, and I'll admit it: until we transform these "PvE/PvP" threads into threads where people leave their preferences (and prejudices! I've personally evolved my viewpoint a lot) aside and start finding common grounds, we're going nowehere.

Lourens · Feb 03, 2009, 10:11 AM // 10:11

I love the statement Rahja made, so whats the point to continue this thread anyway if you already know the answer?

Reflect · Feb 03, 2009, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I play both, atm mostly PvP, tho, as i got my 30 pve titles, so i just go get pvp titles for my hom as well.
In PvE it's full of noobs and R-tards, that have no idea what to do, but still there are some heores and henches u can use and still get your titles done.
As well, those PvE noobs are WILLING TO LEARN TO PLAY!
PvP on the other side is full of noobs and lamers(GLF 1 more PS?!), and with current balance it is a complete failure. Only 1 type of build beeing played it TA and HA, RA is just the noob place, full of Sync-ers(FIX IT ANET!), HB is... just a /roll 100 place, where any player that has 100+ IQ and has played 10 hours GW can go to top 200 in a week if he wants. and GvG....Lmao go lose a battle and u are top1000?!
both PvP and PvE suck atm, and noone cares to change something cause of GW2.
so best thing is: go farm some pve titles, and grind some pvp ones, so u can have some good start in GW2, GW1 already failed.

DreamWind · Feb 03, 2009, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

You got any documented proof of that? Nope? Didn't think so. Just another who makes up things just to promote their own agenda.

I think its pretty clear that PvP used to be heavily populated, and compared to today's much more empty PvP zones it is sad. It is fair to say that all these people didn't just "get bored"...there was a lot more to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

I didn't admit anything mo..n, I said I didn't care what the dev intended. One dev does not make a team of developers. When they ALL say it then I MIGHT note it, otherwise it's like Regina saying GW2 does exist and blah blah blah but no PROOF of any sort other than HER words.

Man you really are a flamebaiter. But I will keep this civil because I feel this thread is worth discussing. I'll just say that you are absolutely 100% wrong. If you would like I will post several videos, quotes, links, statements, from several devs...I can show you any evidence you need that Guild Wars was built from the ground up to be a competitive game where skill was the determining factor in your play. Just looking at the evolution of the game from Prophecies to EoTN alone should be enough evidence for anybody though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

SKILL which of course has been eliminated by grind which I am thankful for as well, because even a PVE game of skill gets old and boring if there is nothing new to challenge your skill level or require changing your skill set from time to time.

Wow...just wow man. I bet you can't get anybody to agree with you on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Oh and let's not leave out the pictures inside the flaps as well. Five pictures denoting PVE play and one picture of Hall of Heroes. hrmmm, looks like the advertising on the box sure denotes this as a game built around PVE first and foremost with a PVP element. Once again the PVE element is what sold this game up and to the 5 million point of sales certainly not PVP.

I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course PvE was supposed to be in the game and thriving...I'm simply saying that the game was built upon a PvP foundation where PvP was supposed to have a much larger role than it does now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

It's sad but true, and I'll admit it: until we transform these "PvE/PvP" threads into threads where people leave their preferences (and prejudices! I've personally evolved my viewpoint a lot) aside and start finding common grounds, we're going nowehere.

Good post. I always find it funny when I post from a mostly PvP player perspective when I get attacked by mostly PvE players. Please don't misunderstand I am not trying to attack PvE or its players, because I played PvE nonstop for a year (until I found PvP). I'm just stating the factual history of this game, and how that history will shape the future of the franchise.

Fril Estelin · Feb 03, 2009, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I'm just stating the factual history of this game, and how that history will shape the future of the franchise.

The most recent (1.5year?) part of the GW1 history has been somewhat overlooked by people. (yeah! let's turn this thread into a "GW1 history" thread

) Everyone understands that Anet caters to PvE-rs, i.e. people attracted to a traditional (MMO)Online RPG game where story and PvE content are all you're buying. And this is how GW1 has been advertised since NF IIRC (just joined a bit before NF release, spending 1 or 2 months gathering info), so no surprise that PvP is barely touched by a lot of new players. And you know that the very steep PvP learning curve makes it even more difficult to jump from PvE to PvP (let's put aside the "Anet failed in implementing their original vision" argument, however true it is, the past is in the past) without a bit of luck and a lot of perseverance (and time).

I sincerely believe Anet can and will reverse the thread, because they've learned their lesson and know that there's no way they can just follow along the same dividing lines (not only PvE, PvP, but also elite and casual). You need a sort of smooth continuum of experiences that do not allow for player segregation (what players do a lot, the "you're a PvEr/PvPer, get out of this thread", Anet can do very little against that and we, as a community, have to ponder on this very fact and how to change this), including making sure that game predictability is kept at a reasonable level (GW wiki and PvX contribute to the overall ambiance of segregation by setting the standards, you either know it or have to read it to play the game as a "pro").

I personally hope that PvEvP/World PvP is going to be very smooth and fun, that the GW2 story will be very engaging, enabling everyone (even PvPers, whatever that'll mean in GW2) to contribute to the story and the world. But IMHO Anet can't make the GW community healthy by itself, there has to be quite a (r)evolution of the community by itself, this is something that can turn an MMO into a good or bad social environment. The content is often an excuse to interact, how many times did you have fun going back at a particular part of the game with a friend new to the game? How many times did a "victory" taste less fun because you didn't win with your friends?

There are a lot of prejudices to fight in the mind of GW players, on "both sides", and maybe, just maybe, this thread can help towards this clarification. Players all are here to have fun, different kind of fun, with varying amounts of time and (mental) resources.

This reminds me of a post I saw in Gladiator's Arena (or was it a whisp from a friend?) saying that there may be very promising PvErs that could potentially play PvP at high-end, but will never do it due to the nature of the PvP community. Similarly, during PvE, PvPers are annoyed by players who know very little about the game and make silly things (I've seen quite a few, from the Ele playing as a Sin because he likes it to the Wammo ragequiting). The game is just the single point of focus in players' mind and becomes an excuse to bash other players. If people stopped looking at it this way, but instead as "generic players with varying preferences and prejudices" accessing PvE and PvP content, we'd have a much healthier GW community.

I guess it's enough wall of text for now.

EDIT: I'd venture to mention an old idea I suggested on "Shall Anet open GW2 to the community via democratisation?" (inspired by EVE's council of players), the idea was to challenge the community to gather forces and organise itself, possibly with Anet support.

Red Sonya · Feb 03, 2009, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Knightfall
SKILL which of course has been eliminated by grind which I am thankful for as well, because even a PVE game of skill gets old and boring if there is nothing new to challenge your skill level or require changing your skill set from time to time.

Wow...just wow man. I bet you can't get anybody to agree with you on that.

Well I agree with him and just about everything else he has said as well. Proving you actually aren't 100% right at all. lolololol

I bought GW because of the PVE aspect not because of the PVP aspect and the polls whether you want to accept them or not are also 100% correct in that PVE is widely accepted as the reason people play rpg games. Also, for the record competitive play does not solely mean PVP competition, competitive play can mean I have more than you within the PVE world. I put more into getting more, you tried to catch up and competed with me but couldn't because I am better than you and the list goes on an on what competitive play can mean in any game. So, go back to your little troll hole please and leave these discussions to those intheknow. Thanks bye.

Lourens · Feb 03, 2009, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reflect

I play both, atm mostly PvP, tho, as i got my 30 pve titles, so i just go get pvp titles for my hom as well.
In PvE it's full of noobs and R-tards, that have no idea what to do, but still there are some heores and henches u can use and still get your titles done.
As well, those PvE noobs are WILLING TO LEARN TO PLAY!
PvP on the other side is full of noobs and lamers(GLF 1 more PS?!), and with current balance it is a complete failure. Only 1 type of build beeing played it TA and HA, RA is just the noob place, full of Sync-ers(FIX IT ANET!), HB is... just a /roll 100 place, where any player that has 100+ IQ and has played 10 hours GW can go to top 200 in a week if he wants. and GvG....Lmao go lose a battle and u are top1000?!
both PvP and PvE suck atm, and noone cares to change something cause of GW2.
so best thing is: go farm some pve titles, and grind some pvp ones, so u can have some good start in GW2, GW1 already failed.

Theres something called Friends and Ventrilo for PvE

Test Me · Feb 03, 2009, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I PvE.
Yes, still.

Have some professions I didn't try, have elite armors I may go for etc. I play when I want, how I want, don't need to pass any tests to get in a team, don't have the need to prove anyone I know how to pay this game, I don't particularly like to have people complaining all day long about how others play instead of minding their own business... and so on.

If PvP would be as "uninvolving" as that and I could play at whatever time I want, for whatever time I choose and still be able to answer the phone when it rings and if no one gave a crap about how bad I play but instead they would give attention to people that play good... then I would enjoy to PvP. But that game isn't out yet.

And to be honest, GW is not a rewarding/positive gaming experience.

Most of it is just frustration for both PvE and PvPers. Other players are just liabilities (=more chances you won't achieve what you want to achieve). As long as that would be true it's never going to be fun playing with others.

Could that change? Of course. There could be rewards given by just participating, which could grow as you get better; or partially completed goals could give something in return, or the possibility to dynamically jump in and out an instance.

To give an example: if you've been playing for 2 hours to get a mission done and the Mo leaves at almost the end... you've just wasted 2h of play time and that might be all you had that day. If however you had a way to invite a friend to take the place of the person that left in the instance you are, and the rewards would be scaled such both the person that had to go and the person that replaced it get a divided reward based on their contributed time/achievements/involvement... things would be totally different.

For now playing GW with other players is just an experience in frustration, unless you play with friends only.

PS: For a very clear example of what I mean. "Gladiator: One gladiator point is given to individuals who achieve 5 consecutive wins in either Random Arenas or in Team Arenas." You get nothing for playing. Further more you get absolutely nothing for winning also. In order to get *one* point you have to win 5 times in a row! Now how would people feel when they would try this first time? How would your team mates feel if you mess something up and loose the 5th battle? --- What's the purpose of this reward system really?

glacialphoenix · Feb 03, 2009, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

GW is pretty bad about it. Perhaps decisions with the game led to the phenomenon?

It's fairly simple. Nobody likes being called a noob based on their choice of play. However, nobody likes being called an elitist asshole based on their choice of play, either. Everyone's defending their own turf.

Rinse and repeat said sentiments over enough time, and you have loads of people ready to fly off the handle the moment you mention PvE/PvP.

moriz · Feb 03, 2009, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

Could that change? Of course. There could be rewards given by just participating, which could grow as you get better; or partially completed goals could give something in return, or the possibility to dynamically jump in and out an instance.

To give an example: if you've been playing for 2 hours to get a mission done and the Mo leaves at almost the end... you've just wasted 2h of play time and that might be all you had that day. If however you had a way to invite a friend to take the place of the person that left in the instance you are, and the rewards would be scaled such both the person that had to go and the person that replaced it get a divided reward based on their contributed time/achievements/involvement... things would be totally different.

For now playing GW with other players is just an experience in frustration, unless you play with friends only.

PS: For a very clear example of what I mean. "Gladiator: One gladiator point is given to individuals who achieve 5 consecutive wins in either Random Arenas or in Team Arenas." You get nothing for playing. Further more you get absolutely nothing for winning also. In order to get *one* point you have to win 5 times in a row! Now how would people feel when they would try this first time? How would your team mates feel if you mess something up and loose the 5th battle? --- What's the purpose of this reward system really?

gee, i wasn't aware that GW is run by the commies. GW rewards the exact same thing as it said on the box: skill and excellence. you don't get points for time played (though this has been blurry for the last little while), and you most certainly don't get points for participation. if you want that, stop playing and go to one of those schools that don't keep grades, and marks you on "how hard you are trying".

DreamWind · Feb 03, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I sincerely believe Anet can and will reverse the thread, because they've learned their lesson and know that there's no way they can just follow along the same dividing lines (not only PvE, PvP, but also elite and casual).

This remains to be seen...but in all honesty I doubt it will happen. They know they screwed up in Guild Wars 1 in that regard, and I think the announcement of Guild Wars 2 basically throws the problem out the window. I think it will basically be 2 completely seperate games (in the same game of course). I would be shocked if there is any form of integration between the two...but like I said it remains to be seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

The game is just the single point of focus in players' mind and becomes an excuse to bash other players. If people stopped looking at it this way, but instead as "generic players with varying preferences and prejudices" accessing PvE and PvP content, we'd have a much healthier GW community.

Very true, and I think that is the reason threads like this never last. People can't step back and look at the big picture, instead choosing to focus on that single point. My problem here is that Anet helped fuel the situation. Over time they have done several things to alienate segments of their playerbase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Well I agree with him and just about everything else he has said as well. Proving you actually aren't 100% right at all. lolololol

You agree that the removal of skill in favor of grind is a good thing? Hmm...make a poll about that and see how "right" you are.

The rest of your post was unreadble so I didn't respond to it.

Test Me · Feb 03, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

gee, i wasn't aware that GW is run by the commies. GW rewards the exact same thing as it said on the box: skill and excellence. you don't get points for time played (though this has been blurry for the last little while), and you most certainly don't get points for participation. if you want that, stop playing and go to one of those schools that don't keep grades, and marks you on "how hard you are trying".

You really missed my entire point.

People "participate" and learn (including games) if they get something out of it. In other games you level up when you "participate". GW does not have any experience leveling, though you still get experience by playing. So the only reward that was there is gone or irrelevant and what did they balanced that with?

Nothing. So many times you just waste your time advancing your character in no way or another.

About advices like stop playing and go to X school. Please keep it to yourself. You're not in any shape to tutor me or anyone else that you don't know for a matter of fact. But if you like hearing yourself keep that up with other players as well. Eventually some will follow your advice and stop.

I get it that your end goal is to make everyone stop playing and have the game all to yourself? Get serious.

moriz · Feb 03, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

the reward for playing the game is playing the game. you play the game because you enjoy playing it. that's how pretty much all games are structured. if you don't enjoy the game, you can always stop and look elsewhere. anet is not going to miss much by not having you around.

Quote:

I get it that your end goal is to make everyone stop playing and have the game all to yourself? Get serious.

why don't you take your own advice and not make baseless accusations. get serious yourself.

Test Me · Feb 03, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the reward for playing the game is playing the game. you play the game because you enjoy playing it. that's how pretty much all games are structured. if you don't enjoy the game, you can always stop and look elsewhere. anet is not going to miss much by not having you around.

why don't you take your own advice and not make baseless accusations. get serious yourself.

So let me guess. You're just one of the friendly kids still in school that like to welcome and introduce people to the details of PvP play right? Just one of those I was saying in my initial post that I would absolutely love to play with!

How lucky I found you! How lucky you are such a prestigious member of the community! The community would definitively flourish if only more people like you would be around, mr/mrs "your not good enough for this game so stop playing". (Yes I am pretty tired of this attitude of some of you here on the guru forums that suffer from different kinds of superiority complexes. But no worries that will never get you far, however being nice will).

Considering your thoughts I wonder if you would find work to be rewarding by itself after you finish school and get a job. Or you would actually want some money for it? Because the reward of working with passion is work itself, isn't it? I'm sure your future employer will be very happy with you.

Of course people have a very basic need to achieve and not feel like they're wasting time. Including when they play games. Fun comes from achievements, not as much as from participation (though that can sometimes be true as well).

moriz · Feb 03, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

gee, one tiny little prod and you go flying off the handle, accusing me of everything in the book (even though i am guilty of none of them). i won't bother teaching you even if i am the type to teach people (which btw, i am).

Quote:

About advices like stop playing and go to X school. Please keep it to yourself. You're not in any shape to tutor me or anyone else that you don't know for a matter of fact. But if you like hearing yourself keep that up with other players as well. Eventually some will follow your advice and stop.

i'll say it again: take your own advice. and kindly stop the tangents into other areas that does not involve gaming. yes i'd like a job that i will enjoy working in, and no i won't do that said job for free, even though i will volunteer in projects that i deem worthy enough of my free time.

of course, kids with gigantic sense of entitlement like you probably don't know what volunteering means, so there's really no point discussing this with you.

Inde · Feb 03, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Since we are referring to everyone as children... CHILDREN STOP FIGHTING. I should delete/edit your posts but instead I'm appealing to your adult nature, just try to keep the personal insults down.